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Why Emotional Intimacy Can Make or Break Your Relationship

    If you’re anything like us, there’s one thing you absolutely must have before you can even THINK about getting down and dirty in the bedroom. Emotional Intimacy!

    Emotional Intimacy is what lays the foundation and creates safety for our connection with each other. There’s nothing like feeling seen, heard, and understood that allows for trust to be built and intimacy to bloom.

    ✅ Mastering Emotional Literacy is like having a superpower for resolving triggers and conflicts, dissolving power struggles, placing healthy boundaries, and cultivating deeper intimacy.

    ✅ Lack of emotional relating is the #1 complaint we receive from couples beyond the honeymoon phase. Lacking this easily learnable skill is what can break any relationship, no matter how much love and commitment are present.

    Trust us, you don’t want to miss this one!

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    Jordan
    Hi, welcome back to our broadcast with RelationshipAlkemy. I’m Jordan Bessaignet.

    Olivier
    I’m Olivier Bessaignet.

    Jordan
    And today we have another super juicy topic. As always. “Why emotional intimacy can make or break your relationship.”

    Olivier
    Yeah, I mean, we wanted to call it juicy emotional intimacy. And considering the messages that I’m receiving from people who need help with their intimate relationship, what’s coming to the surface is that this piece of emotional intimacy is so crucial. And the people who talk to us about how they struggle in their relationship is usually the first piece is usually around emotional intimacy.

    Jordan
    Yes. So let’s just dive into it here and get to the juicy stuff.

    Olivier
    Yeah. Last week we had a call on spicy, sexy talks, and we laid out that, you know, that’s kind of the end of the journey. Like the results where we want to be is have those spicy, sexy, juicy talks. Right. But to get there and that’s what we mentioned last time, to get there, there are a few steps that I mean, foundational pieces that need to be laid out. First, emotional intimacy. That’s today’s topic, as promised. Second is trauma, healing, dissolving, trauma and selfsabotaging patterns. Then we can go into the juicy, sexy stuff. But today, let’s lay the foundation.

    Jordan
    Yeah. I like to think of it as like an ice cream sundae. Like, the juicy, sexy talk is like the cherry on top with the whipped cream.

    Olivier
    Yeah.

    Jordan
    And really emotional intimacy. Is the ice cream okay?

    Olivier
    For me, it would be like the brownie cookie. How does it feel? How does it look like? What is it? Emotional intimacy. What is it? So how does it feel like to have emotional intimacy?

    Jordan
    Yeah, for me, emotional intimacy is like I always use this reference, but it’s the uigooy chocolate chip feeling and emotional intimacy. I have it in all of my relationships, my close, intimate friends with my building, with my family members. But most importantly, I have it with you. And I think that’s almost the best part of our relationship. It’s kind of like, hard to rate. Is the sex better? Is the emotional intimacy better? Because I find that they are two halves of the same coin.

    Olivier
    Yeah.

    Jordan
    For me, I cannot have sexual intimacy unless I have emotional intimacy first.

    Olivier
    So that’s usually the disconnect that we hear the most about when people come up to us and they start explaining what’s going on with them. It’s like, usually we’re going to take, like, the stereotype of the man and the woman, but it doesn’t need to be like that. But kind of the stereotype is, well, the man wants more sexual intimacy, but the woman is not there yet because she’s missing the emotional intimacy. Right.

    Jordan
    It’s a funny, interesting problem. It’s like, which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    Olivier
    I should have found this drawing that I saw a few months ago. It’s like, there’s a man and a woman and the woman has the hearts here and the men at the heart. So it’s true that this kind of a wiring and again, we’re talking about the stereotype. It’s all a range, but kind of the stereotype is that the woman needs access to her heart, I mean, needs connection with her heart in order to go into the sexuality and the genitals and the man. It’s like, okay, let’s have sex so I can relax and I can feel in my body, and then everything’s going to be okay. Right? So it’s kind of this joke, this catch 22 that circles around, and we stay stuck because all the frustration that comes out. So last week we had such a good love making session in the morning that we just talked about that as our spicy, sexy talk.

    Jordan
    Yeah.

    Olivier
    And this morning, not to disclose all the details, but we will, the way we started last time, and even you said, wow, it breaks the monotony. We found, like, a next level. This is amazing. And so this morning, we did exactly the same. We started the same way to reproduce the same results, and guess what happened?

    Jordan
    I was there, so I can’t guess.

    Olivier
    But it flopped completely.

    Jordan
    Why don’t we just try to do the same thing? It worked so well last time. Let’s just okay.

    Olivier
    So we were spooning like last time, and I used a bit of the lube and started activating her with my fingers, and I got even started intercourse. I was like, okay, I’m not getting much response compared to usual in last time, especially. Okay, something is different. Something is we’re going to figure out what it is. Be patient. And then you’re like, well, yeah, well.

    Jordan
    You asked me, you said, what’s going on? Because there was clearly a noticeable shift in how I normally would react to going to have sex. And just him asking made me feel so seen.

    Olivier
    Yeah, okay.

    Jordan
    Because in my head, I was like, okay, I can either try to ramp myself up and try to turn myself on, and I can get going. And I was like, or I could just feel my feelings and validate myself that, no, I don’t want to have sex right now, because you had asked me what’s going on.

    Olivier
    So, yeah, I mean, you’re like, well, it’s not working, or something like that. And I was like, okay, what’s going on?

    Jordan
    And yeah, I just said, I’m feeling really anxious right now.

    Olivier
    Yeah.

    Jordan
    And then you ask me, okay.

    Olivier
    Yeah, what’s under that? What are you anxious about? What is the spinning of anxiety connected to?

    Jordan
    And then I got to share. Our house is super dirty right now, and I’m just thinking about all the things that I need to do and yeah. I don’t know where really this underlying anxiety is coming from. And what I loved after that, you just kind of, like, held me and you didn’t try to fix it. Well, if you just do some breath work, things will go away and then we can go back to having sex.

    Olivier
    What do you mean? The house is not that dirty.

    Jordan
    Yeah, you didn’t invalidate anything that I.

    Olivier
    Was dirty last time too. What’s the big deal?

    Jordan
    Our house is always dirty. What are you talking about? And yeah, just you like slowing down and holding me, not like asking me. And then I think you made some statement of empathy, of like, wow, I hear you. Yeah, I feel you having your anxiety right now, I’m sorry. Or yeah, you just comforted me in some way and then you just helped me. Yeah, and that was just as good as the spicy sense.

    Olivier
    Yeah, because that moment of connection and I even said, well, I guess it’s just like a little hello then. Yeah, so we don’t need to go into sex ramping it up and all because having this connection is actually just as delicious. And the sexuality is just an expression or an expansion of our emotional intimacy.

    Jordan
    Right. And I think that’s the key part. Can you just say that phrase again?

    Olivier
    Yeah. Sexual intimacy is an extension or an expression of our emotional intimacy. So yeah, it’s something that we are clearly we’re very conscious of it. And in our mentoring course and all our courses on communication and all that, it’s broken in two parts. Part one is emotional intimacy. Actually, three parts. Second part is trauma healing because we can be the best communicators in the world if there’s trauma. There’s still going to be projections and hurt and disconnection. But the third one being sexual intimacy. It has to go through those steps. Emotional intimacy, trauma healing and then sexual intimacy. Makes sense.

    Jordan
    Yes. And so going back to your original question for me, what does emotional intimacy feel like? And it’s really interesting from a woman’s perspective because as a woman, I’ve had way different social conditioning than a man, right? Like. For example. I grew up. Like. Going to the sleepovers. You know. And like. Giggling with my friends and sharing secrets in the night and. You know. Like the next morning. All like. I would feel so close to my friends. You know. There would be this bond between us and like this inner knowing of like. Wow. Like we just went through like. Some magical night together and then we would see each other the next time and be so much deeper in our connection. And so as a female, this is really normalized for me, sharing my emotions, sharing how I’m feeling. Like, especially with other women, you know, especially in my friend group, all of the women thrive on sharing their heart. So whatever is on our heart for the day, it could be joy, it could be sadness, it could be anger, and then just sharing it and being heard and received. And that women have this totally different social programming that allows us to not to stereotype because obviously everyone can have this problem.

    Olivier
    Well, I like to see it as female energy and masculine or shadow masculine energy or over how do you call it? Over masculineized or hyper? Yeah, hyper masculine energy, which is very competitive. What are men bounding over? Like, if it’s, like, sports or money or dance, it’s a whole competitor. It’s not a cooperation kind of emotional relating. So it’s true that the female programming or female energy programming, whether it’s in a man or a woman or anything, like the spectrum in between, is more cooperation, emotional relating. And we had a beautiful episode with Nikki, and she was going through all this 101 ways to know you’re in the patriarchy. Yeah. Toxic masculine energy and that’s hyper self reliance. It would be like the rugged individual. The rugged individual build this country. And so it means atrophy emotional relating. And therefore, in the relationship, it’s missing. It’s excruciatingly missing up to, you know, this relationship is not working for me anymore.

    Jordan
    And so, as a man, what does emotional intimacy feel like for you?

    Olivier
    So you almost said emotional literacy.

    Jordan
    I almost did.

    Olivier
    It’s great because it works together. Emotional intimacy is based on emotional literacy.

    Jordan
    Right.

    Olivier
    So you need to know the language to use it and to express it and to keep the conversation going in this way. I love that when women gather, like, yeah, let’s get together. What do they do while they have tea? Or it’s just, like, chill, there’s no intention. And then one stops sharing and others, like, relates, and then it can look random, you know? And since, like, there’s no purpose to, it not going anywhere. It’s not timed, there’s no structure, and it’s going, and it’s nurturing. So for me, I’ve had periods of my life where I was single and feeling some of the anxiety of feeling, like, loneliness. And, you know, I can, like, buckle up and have myself and be okay with just me. But especially in the relationship, it really nurtures trust that the bonds and the attachment are secure, which means we can face anything and we are solid team. It means all that. So I understand that without it, people that are struggling and going like, well, he’s not a giver. I don’t know if I can ReTrust him or lean on him, or I feel kind of lonely on my own, or I’m missing this kind of rapport.

    Olivier
    Yeah. If the emotional intimacy is not there, then it feels like a void or the relationship is not restable. We know with the words. So attachment is like, are we attached? Right? Are we solid? And we can talk about it, but how do we feel that it is happening? Well, for me, it’s that feeling.

    Jordan
    And so what does that feel like, though? What does it feel like for reassurance?

    Olivier
    Solidness? I mean, for me, it triggers or opens me wanting to serve the family. So it’s a deep feeling of reassurance and deep feeling of bound. So it’s extremely calming and restrained that I don’t need to hide anything. That whatever is going to happen with me, it’s going to be okay. Even if I screw up, even if I fail, even if I don’t need to lie, I don’t need to hide to be myself. I’m accepted for who I am with all the complexity, which means sometimes the glorious moment and sometimes the screw ups and the vulnerability and the things that I would not want everybody to know.

    Jordan
    Right. I’m like really hearing from you right now is like really? The emotional I mean, they already said it. The emotional intimacy builds this delicious, GC foundation for the relationship. So when you’re sharing these intimate moments back and forth, this is what builds the partnership. This is what builds the bond that keeps you keeps you going through no matter what.

    Olivier
    Exactly.

    Jordan
    So I want to get to this part of when we see couples, when they’re typically having problems, first thing you ask is like, okay, well, how is the emotional intimacy?

    Olivier
    Yeah. One of the questions could be, how is your communication going? Because it reveals to us the level of emotional intimacy that they are getting on us. Or we could ask, how is the emotional intimacy going? Maybe they don’t know how to word it. Emotional intimacy. Communication is easier for me to access, but they’re completely tied together. For me, emotional intimacy is the results. And conscious communication or communication is the tool and the practice to have emotional intimacy.

    Jordan
    And so before we get into, you know, the what emotional intimacy actually is, what is it not?

    Olivier
    Right. So that feeling of kind of loneliness, some people would say lack of romance because the whole game it’s not a game, but the whole like the key about a relationship is really the quality of attention and presence. Right. And it ties so profoundly. Like, if you want to write, only one thing is quality of attention is and presence because so much is attached to it and especially selfworth or worth. Like when people say, what am I worth to you? Where does it come from? That question? That question comes from how much quality of attention and presence they’re receiving or they are styling to questions like, I’m not feeling fully nurtured or my well is not watered enough, or My grass is not watered enough because I’m not getting the quality of attention and presence. It could be quantity, but it’s mostly quality, even over a small quantity because words, it’s just like cute words don’t cut it. Like, okay, you say you love me, but I really want to feel it.

    Jordan
    Right. One distinct phrase that I heard of is we’re just going through the motions.

    Olivier
    Yeah.

    Jordan
    So we’re like living our everyday life together, but it just feels empty.

    Olivier
    So it’s more like the masculine energy. So stereotypely it would be the man going, well, but what are you talking about? I’m here for dinner and I’m paying rent, showing up, I’m changing the kids diapers, I’m here. What are you talking about? And the woman is going crazy like you’re denying my number one thing I’m missing, right? Yeah. And the man is like, I don’t even know what so what are we talking about? Okay guys, when she says that and it’s going reverse, it’s really an energy. What is she talking about? She’s talking about your quality of attention and presence. So if you’re like, hey babe, how was it today? You had a good time? Like, how is it at work? That is very low quality. How do you feel when I say that? Do you want to share anything?

    Jordan
    No.

    Olivier
    And she’s trying to say, yeah, okay, what are we having for dinner? This is being present in the room as a buddy, but it’s very low quality of attention. So quality of attention is in presence is not having any other distraction. Listening to the person, looking at them in the eyes, maybe touching them if touch is important and going, hey babe, I’m so glad I’m back and I cannot wait to come back to you. And I don’t know what we’re going to do, but just sitting there is completely fulfilling me.

    Jordan
    And we gave like an extreme example of somebody being on their phone. That’s a very extreme example. And one that’s less extreme that I tend to observe in relationships is you’re asking your partner and you’re looking in the eye, you’re like, how is your day? And then they go to say something and then it’s like, oh, and the other person interrupts them or the other person butts in with the story or is very like can be very excited to share something going on from their life. But then I notice that leaves the other person feeling completely ignored, completely bypassed. And so although it’s not as extreme as putting your phone down or being on your phone and asking and not as extreme as that still can be hurtful and bypassing of the person not sharing their emotions. So going back to a practical tool tip with presence, it’s honestly listening and hearing what the other person is saying, repeating it back to them. Well, what I’m hearing from you is that you had a long day and you feel stressed out and repeating it back to the other person and then asking, is that correct?

    Jordan
    Is that true? And then the other person can answer yes or no.

    Olivier
    Yeah. If one of the partners is having something a little frazzled, like something up and at work or something with the kids, something with money or something with a friend or a family member or in the partnership, there’s a little bit of a trigger or something is coming up. How do you respond to that? That’s the main thing. So any response that looks like some kind of defensiveness defensiveness is either defensive myself or defending your boss or your parents or your uncle that you’re not having a hard time with, like, no, that’s not where he met. No, you’re taking this to personally, or if it’s about me. But I did that because X-Y-Z this is denying the other person reality. Now, when people are not trained, the original complaints can sound very critical, and it’s hard to not get defensive, right? We can get to that. We can get to that. But the first thing about emotional intimacy is to like, what I do is that I stay very natural. I open my heart consciously. Like, I get in touch with my hearts and I get in touch with you, and the first thing that I say is nothing.

    Jordan
    I feel like that’s the key. Write that down, folks. The first thing that he says is nothing.

    Olivier
    Step one, silence. Step one, silence. And try to feel or to tap into what the other is going through. Right? If she says I’m anxious or I’m vulnerable or I’m concerned or I’m stressed out or I’m in fear, okay. I need a moment to let her words and her energy, like her physiology and everything sink into me because I have my own thing going on, right? So I need to put that aside for a minute and take a minute to have all that sink in. And so feeling what the other is feeling can be really uncomfortable, right? And this is where he’s like, Oof, OOH. Well, let’s try to fix it over there. So I stopped feeling like that would be no, no, don’t do that. Right? That would be the opposite of emotional intimacy. How do you feel about that? Because usually the first expression is not necessarily feeling.

    Jordan
    Right.

    Olivier
    It’s like, I’m afraid that XYZ is going to happen. What? You said you had a feeling word right away. You said, I’m anxious. You started with a feeling word. It was like, okay, what are you anxious about? But usually the consent. The house is so dirty. Okay, that’s not a feeling. So how do you feel about that? Okay, so first, silence. Second investigator, more. What’s underneath that? And then validation. Like yeah, I understand. I feel that with you. I’m sorry you feel like that.

    Jordan
    So three steps, literally, so simple silence. Actually listening and hearing what your partner is sharing. The second step is investigating more. There’s a list of questions that you can ask. How do you feel about that? Can you tell me more? Dropping into the heart space, the feeling space. And then from there, it’s some kind of validation.

    Olivier
    It doesn’t have to be there. Going slow, like giving some type of validation that I’m on board. Not necessarily. My uncle is such an asshole. Oh, yeah, I know, because I know it’s totally bipolar. We’re not doing there.

    Jordan
    Right?

    Olivier
    It’s like, wow, I feel your struggle with that.

    Jordan
    Right?

    Olivier
    So it’s a validation of your emotions.

    Jordan
    I would say it’s an acknowledgment.

    Olivier
    Yeah, exactly. Perfect.

    Jordan
    It’s an acknowledgement because validation almost sounds like you have to give but really?

    Olivier
    Permission. Yeah.

    Jordan
    You’re just acknowledging the other person’s reality just for a couple of minutes, and then from there, you can really go into so many options of, like, holding.

    Olivier
    Yeah, this morning, we didn’t need anything more than that. It’s just holding us, like the bounding and.

    Jordan
    Attunement.

    Olivier
    Oh, man, I’m blanking on that word. coregulation. Yeah, the coregulation. So just coagulating. I’m sure that already helps. Soothing. So I’m not demanding. Well, think of that later, because we’re going to clean the I mean, you’re going to clean the house when I’m out, but let’s have sex first. It would be terrible. Now, the last question that I would ask, if it was a space to go deeper in the conversation is like, so what do you need? Or, what does that show you? That what your values are or what’s important to you? Because what’s important to you is and I remember you in the past saying, so I did not need to ask because you already heard the answer before. But I could have asked just to tap into that deeper layer, because I know that for you, the house is a reflection of you. And then to be clear headed in your energy and moving forward and creating things, that reflection of you in the house is important to be clear in your energy. So I totally got that right away. Right, but it’s because we had a conversation when I did ask because no, right.

    Olivier
    So what are your needs? Or why is it important for you?

    Jordan
    And then that’s when I would share this is where it goes back to the feelings and needs. Some of my values are cleanliness and basically everything that you just described, and I would share that with you, which we already have had to talk about this in the past. So when I come this is also another beautiful example of emotional intimacy. Right. Like, I’ve shared this with you already.

    Olivier
    We built it already.

    Jordan
    We built it already. So when it comes up again, there’s already that layer there, and so we’re just, like, adding another layer. And, you know, just hearing him say, like, wow, I remember you sharing this, and just him sharing that he remembers it and that he acknowledges it, I’m already like, oh, my God, I feel so seam. Thank you. Like, I’m not going crazy. And it becomes an acknowledgment that we this is what I love about it, is I feel like we’re facing it together.

    Olivier
    Yes.

    Jordan
    We’re a team, and I don’t feel so alone anymore, so I’m sharing my inner world with you, and then you get a glimpse of that inner world, and when you hold me through it, that’s what really turns me on.

    Olivier
    Yeah.

    Jordan
    Right. And so then I’m like, okay, let’s have sex.

    Olivier
    But this time, I was dead wrong. Because a little later, we go slow.

    Jordan
    Okay.

    Olivier
    Don’t feel too good. Okay. That’s okay. The thing is, it’s okay with me. It’s okay. So then we have lunch, and then you have a couple of bites, and then you went, oh, I feel so much better.

    Jordan
    Yeah, we ended up having a super late breakfast just because we took a longer time in bed this morning and talking and being held. And so when we got to breakfast, I started eating and I was like, wow, I feel so much better. Like, yes, I was anxious about the house, and two, my blood sugar was really dropping, and I didn’t notice until I started eating. And so just like just thought, too, and then sharing it with him, it’s like, oh, we’re building another layer. And so I’m continuously sharing my inner reality in a very thoughtful, mindful way. It’s not like a constant stream of chatter, although sometimes it is, which that’s just a part of me right now.

    Olivier
    Funny enough, we’re not very talkative people. We have long rides where we don’t talk, we just listen to music. But it’s because we have this foundation. So just holding hands is enough. We don’t need to share every little detail of what we thought that’s happening in our heads because we have this foundation. And when things come up, we do, we take the time to have the quality of connection in presence.

    Jordan
    Right? And so going back to what you said earlier, it’s not the quantity. How many times have we shared today? Because that can also be exhausting if you’re not that type of person, which both of us aren’t. And it’s the quality. So although we had this morning, that was like a ten minute conversation, and you held me in that for like five to ten minutes afterwards, that was probably like a 20 minutes thing. Got up and showered. And so although it wasn’t like 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours, I felt my cup being filled by that interaction. Because the quality of your presence and the why am I booking on the word right now? And your attention. Quality of your attention and your presence.

    Olivier
    Yeah. Quality of attention and presence is the underlying key beyond everything, even like, sexual intimacy, it’s all about that. And when a child does not receive that quality of attention, they have self worth issues and then becomes a trauma. Right. So that’s why cultivating that capacity for it’s not many words. It’s not, okay, give me the script on how to respond. It’s quality of attention. And then, yeah, the prompts are, okay, how do you feel? Because what’s important to you? So it’s just those two simple prompts. But if someone is having it sounds simple.

    Jordan
    Right?

    Olivier
    But the work is really to get that quality of attention and presence, which means tracking and dissolving all the things that can pull us away from that, whether it’s trauma or discombobulation or yeah. What’s in the way of that. And a lot of our western culture, unfortunately, have this problem even more now with the devices and everything, right. Our attention is a business model because social media and all those devices and movies and all that their business. They make billions of dollars by knowing exactly and crafting devices on how to harvest. We watch a couple of Netflix documentaries if you want to watch them as well. It’s harvesting people’s attention is a multibillion dollar market, right? So, I mean, I’m aware of that and so I’m aware of where I put my attention and my presence because I know the other person is going to feel that this relationship matters to me or not based on that. If they have any self worth issues, it’s going to trigger it based on that. And same, if I don’t have attention with myself and with others, then I’m going to have presence issues and selfworth issues. That makes sense, right?

    Jordan
    And so one thing that you just said right now that I love, and I feel like it’s a highlight, is how much attention and presence are you having with yourself before you can even begin to go into an intimate relationship and share it. That’s what I love is like, okay, how are you tracking yourself? Like, how are you tracking your own emotions, your own feelings? And you know, this is one thing that I love because when you’re tracking yourself, you know how you feel and how you don’t feel, right? So sometimes when I hear people sharing, it’s like, oh, well, I feel like I need to fix this other person because I’m also feeling those emotions.

    Olivier
    Well, I’m jittered by that person, which means I’m not in touch with my own emotions and her jitteriness is affecting my own things and it’s too much for me to handle, although I’m not in touch with it.

    Jordan
    And so just by tracking your own emotions, validating yourself, paying attention to your own personal life details and then joining up with someone else. So when someone does go to share, you can remain in your own body and not feel overwhelmed and like there’s less separation. Although we are together, it’s not like.

    Olivier
    I have a few notes, so I call it what is not empathy or what is not emotional intimacy. It’s like the response. The person is saying, well, I don’t feel good right now. So what do you mean you don’t feel good right now? I don’t know, I feel anxious or I don’t know what’s going on. I feel grouchy or grumpy. So the prompt, as we said, is, what’s going on? How do you feel? What’s going on that you feel this way? What’s important to you that’s not being met right now, but the opposite. What not to do is any type of analysis or diagnosis. Well, you’re always anxious. What’s your PTSD again? You know, that’s a good one. Yak. Second one fixing or. Any kind of strategy or suggestive action. Yeah, we’ll take your pills or you.

    Jordan
    Want tea, or, you know, immediately jumping into, like, let’s come up with a plan.

    Olivier
    Let’s fix it.

    Jordan
    And like, this one is what always gets me because I personally am a fixer. Like, let’s figure out a solution, you know, but really, the other person just needs to be held in their emotions or seen or validated or acknowledged for what they’re going through. So it’s not like jumping into that for the house.

    Olivier
    Could I responded, babe, I’m available for cleaning the house on Saturday and Sundays because it’s my day off, but on Monday. So we’re going to clean it this weekend. So it’s two things. It’s strategizing and it’s also minimizing, which is the third one. Go ahead.

    Jordan
    Yeah. Minimizing distracting or denial of emotions, which can be a spiritual bypass of it’s not that bad, don’t feel bad about it, or don’t be anxious, we’re going to clean it this weekend. Immediately denying this other person’s reality of like, no, don’t feel that, don’t feel that.

    Olivier
    Put it aside, put it aside.

    Jordan
    Yeah. So another one is running away or shutting down, which can oftentimes trigger abandonment. I hear this from couples of, well, he snapped at me, or he got super triggered, and then I totally shut down after that. Like, disassociating, giving the cold shoulder, just like, ignoring, which can feel really terrible and trigger abandonment.

    Olivier
    Yeah, we had a client explain that. So he was the husband, and he was saying that he loved connecting with his male best friend from childhood, but anytime he had trouble in his marriage, he wanted to have the support from his best friend, male best friend. And when he would start sharing about that, the guy would go to him and disappear for a week, probably because he wasn’t comfortable with hearing all that. So that’s the opposite of support, his abandonment. The next one is any type of judgments. Right, wrong, blame, shame, punishment, reward.

    Jordan
    Yeah. So what this can look like is when me sharing, I’m anxious, and then Olivier sharing, like, oh, well, you’re wrong to feel anxious because I cleaned the house the other day and just dismissing the feeling.

    Olivier
    Yeah, good. Taipei. What would be like, the stereotype for people type A? I understand it OCD or something. Yeah, here’s your OCD again. Right. I’m not thinking of anything in this context, but anybody who’s kind of saying something vulnerable is like, oh, come on, you’re not going to cry about it. Or yeah, don’t be such a crybaby about it. Shaming.

    Jordan
    Yeah. So another one is talking about yourself or topping their story with a better one of yours. And this is something that I see often as well. The other person is just so excited to share where they’re at, and it’s not it all of a sudden it stops becoming this beautiful, cohesive moment of, like, two people coming together and sharing one reality and being seen in that reality, all of a sudden it’s like back to the other person. The other person is talking about themselves, and then the person on the receiving end usually tends to shut down.

    Olivier
    Yeah, don’t tell me about it. Like, anxious. I am anxious. I’m anxious about work. I’m anxious about then I go on with my thing, and then all of.

    Jordan
    A sudden and it’s like, cool, I was talking about me, but now it’s all about you. And so this strategy for this that can be helpful is having, like, going in and knowing, okay, I’m here to listen to this person. And as this person sharing and you’re validating them and you’re acknowledging their feelings and giving attention, at the end, you can ask, do you feel complete?

    Olivier
    Yeah.

    Jordan
    Just one simple question can avoid all of this trouble of like, well, I wasn’t done talking and I wanted to share more because they either are feeling complete with their share or they’re not, and then they’re going to finish up their share with whatever they needed to add. So asking, do you feel complete at the end of a share and not this is after all of the previous steps. This isn’t like sharing. Like, well, I feel anxious, and Olivier going, do you feel complete? Like, what’s going to me now? So you’re still doing the other steps, and then this would happen.

    Olivier
    Yeah. Basically, the main skill is being comfortable with uncomfortable emotions.

    Jordan
    Right.

    Olivier
    So if she’s sharing something that’s uncomfortable for her, I got to be comfortable with that discomfort so I can hold space for her or hold it and hold her. And if something is coming up for me, like, as she’s speaking, maybe she’s complaining to me or things that I go like, well, it’s sitting for a minute with it and maybe not reacting right away with it and going, yeah, that’s hard for me to hear. But we’ll go I mean, also, look about me when we’re complete, I mean, or we can go over it later. Okay, tell me more.

    Jordan
    Right.

    Olivier
    And so sitting with that unresolved thing until she sells down. Okay. Yeah, I’m having some things too. Can I share or are you complete or do you want to tell me more? Something of that sort.

    Jordan
    Right. And so just to share again, all of these conversations, they don’t need to be fast paced. Yeah, right. I noticed in myself, when I want to move quickly and I want to get to the next thing, that’s when I notice myself, like, getting more triggered and getting especially when we’re talking about something that’s a problem in our relationship. So, like, when we’re sharing, because sometimes they share about my inner world or my outer world, and then there’s our relationship. And so we’re talking as we face difficult problems and we’re sharing. This is not a fast process. This is like, many days, if something does come up, it’s multiple days of conversations that have a ton of attention and presence. And so it’s slow. It’s not jumping to solutions. It’s not fixing it right away. It’s just holding each other in these emotions. And so, like, I mean, this morning was not, like, an issue about our relationship, but when an issue does come up, it’s holding each other in that and acknowledging and saying, like, yes, I hear you, and yada, yada, yada, you know, and then also, like, Olivier shared, like, are you done?

    Jordan
    Can I share? Or do you feel complete? Like, I’ve had some feelings about this. And then it’s slow. It’s such a slow process. It’s not like this rapid exchange. It’s a slow process. I love touch, so anytime we’re talking about our relationship, I always want to be held. So usually he’s holding me or he has a hand on my heart, or our feet are touching, just some sort of physical connection. So that way I can remember that we’re partners on this, that we’re not against each other. And also, then that allows for collaboration to take place as well. And then it doesn’t get into this super passionately heated, although we have had conversations like that before.

    Olivier
    Yeah. So it’s a slow process as we do it. And it’s a slow process to learn. Right, because who taught us relationships and intimacy? Usually, you know, it’s our parents or, you know, sometimes dysfunctional relatives, sometimes dysfunctional parents. It’s not hard in school. TV drama is the opposite of intimacy. It’s all conflicts because that makes good TV juice, right? So it’s not modeled. And how do you learn this? You learn this. And this is why we have a mentoring program. You learn this by being muddled by people that got it down, like us. And week after week, going slow and unpacking, one thing at a time and saying it’s kind of wrong and being corrected. What we love doing with couples is when they have an issue and they both each speak their truth separately instead of at each other. Then we can model the response to the first person and then model the response to the second person so that the trigger comes down, like, oh, yeah, this is actually what I wanted to hear. And so we can model what the other partner could have said more satisfyingly so that over time, week after week that’s why our program is three months.

    Olivier
    Week after week, they get this new habit. It’s a habit that you can cultivate. Let’s just finish the two points that we have here. Then if you’re interested, we can talk a little bit about how it looks like to work with us.

    Jordan
    And so the last two points is going to be defensiveness. And I see this coming up. We touched on it briefly before, but it’s defensive as like, well, I’m not doing that. That’s not me. You know, instead of just, like, hearing the person taking a moment to hear the person, hear what they’re going through. Here the reality, noticing if a reaction comes up inside of you and not just immediately sharing it, it’s going back to the slow process, checking in with yourself defensiveness. Is that coming up? Is that not? And then the last one is taking sides. And you also touched on this before, like, oh, your uncle is just blah, blah, blah.

    Olivier
    Yeah, no wonder your uncle said that. He’s just bipolar, right? So what happens when she reconciles with him?

    Jordan
    Right?

    Olivier
    And I took sides and I’m going to meet her at Thanksgiving or him, I’m going to find myself in the same room at Thanksgiving is going to be so awkward, right? Because she can’t tell him that I said that. And if she does, then it’s going to be very awkward. If she doesn’t say it, she’s going to be awkward with him. It’s going to be a triangulation. So we’re facing shit. We’re here to help you out. I hope that all makes sense to you. So that’s why we have a three month program. And if you’re interested in learning all those steps and again, it’s three steps. We talked briefly today about emotional intimacy that builds into sexual intimacy. In between is the gate of trauma, trauma healing, trauma clearing, because all the communication in the world will not solve, you know, if there’s trauma in the middle of it. And so what we offer is a ten minute free phone call to figure out if this could be compatible for you in your specific relationship and unique situation. So the result of the program is to get to have the triggers and double the intimacy, emotional intimacy and sexual intimacy in 90 days or less, guaranteed.

    Olivier
    So we’ll continue working with you if it hasn’t happened. And it’s about keeping your intimacy spicy and juicy even after the honeymoon phase. So I’m going to drop the link here in the comments if you want to book a free call with us. I hope it’s going to go through the whole thing. Book a free ten minute call with us. And it’s just about assessing your relationship, seeing where you’re at, if this could be a good fit for you or not. We are not for everybody because we have a specific style and when we go into sexual intimacy, it can be pretty edgy, secrets of massage and stuff like that. So part of our communication style, like we explained last time, is talking about our crushes on other people and stuff like that. So you need to see if that resonates for you or not. But we love helping. And it starts with this just laid back ten minute call to see what’s going on for you in your unique, specific situation and see if we can be a good match or not. If this method that we have can be a good match for you or not.

    Olivier
    So when you click on the button you’re going to get to the calendar and then you can book a session. Just pick a time and then we have a quick few questions just so that we have a little bit of background before we start talking to you. Okay, I hope that makes sense. That’s fair. And yeah, if you’re interested in implementing that quality of thing in your own relationship, we love talking about spicy, sexy stuff, talks and pleasure and love making, that’s the results. But depending on where you at, could be different gateways to access that, you know, trauma, healing, communication styles.

    Jordan
    Right. So yeah, everything just to go back to what we said, this is emotional intimacy. This is why it can make or break your relationship is because it’s such a huge foundational piece of relating.

    Olivier
    Yeah. Most of the people that come to us and they’re on the verge of breakup or divorce, there could be some violence, there could be some mental health stuff, but 80%, 90% of the time, one of the partners don’t feel fulfilled. And usually it’s because this key of emotional intimacy is not present because they don’t know where to start. They don’t know how to even open up. They don’t even know what to ask for.

    Jordan
    Right.

    Olivier
    Because it’s not taught anywhere. But that’s what we specialize about.

    Jordan
    Yeah. So if any of this resonates with you, remember you can book the call we sent, the link in the chat and yeah, that’s it for today, folks. As always, please leave us a five star rating or review and we’ll see you here next time. Be kind and be well.

    Olivier
    Take care.

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